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 Post subject: Doing What I Do - Reloading post
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:00 pm 
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I spend a lot of time answering questions. Dozens of emails every day and sometimes 10 phone calls a day on top. It's hard to give over the top customer service some times. During this process, I often find myself answering the same questions over and over. I enjoy talking to people about guns and stuff, so I'm not complaining, I'm just searching for an increase in my efficiencies. Sometimes, I can tell the person asking is looking for some justification that I know what I'm talking about. I don't have military experience beyond shooting for the ROTC rifle team in college. I haven't spent time as a Law Enforcement Officer. What I have done is bought, sold, and collected just about every type of firearm imaginable. I've also spent a lot of time and money competing in IDPA, IPSC, High Power and clay bird shooting. Since we decided to make a business out of supporting shooting sports and shooters, I've I had to narrow my personal shooting activities down to High Power Rifle and Cowboy Action. However, I don't shoot enough to be really competitive at either sport. But, I still get a lot of enjoyment out of it. I do love to shoot.

One of the questions I get a lot is regarding reloading. With ammunition prices climbing, reloading is starting to appeal to more than just your high volume shooters from IPSC and trap. You can shoot High Power without reloading, but anymore, it gets expensive fast. Probably close to $100 per match in ammo. As I've gotten older and more patient, I've really become fond of my time at the reloading bench. I've been doing it for over ten years, so I've built up a good quantity of quality equipment and components. I thought I would spend some time discussing reloading on the forum. Last night, I snapped a few photos of my bench and supplies as I gear up to produce my 308 loads needed for this years High Power season. Some of the things I found even surprised me at times.

Here is a first look. Feel free to shoot me any questions or comments. That is what I am here for.


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This is the heart of my investment. A Dillon 550B. It has several upgrades. The roller handle, strong mounts and bullet tray are all must haves. At the time, this was the best progressive reloader on the market by far. Both RCBS and Hornady have introduced models over the past 4-6 years that can do good jobs for you as well. However, you can never go wrong with a Dillon.

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Brass sorting in process. The big bucket is heaped with all of my 308 brass. It has all been cleaned and now I am sorting it by make. I use the tin buckets as they are great for holding brass. The bucket in the picture is filling up with once fired Federal brass. The pile on the left is Remington brass that I mostly use for practice rounds. The other piles are various other brands, Winchester, PMC, NATO etc. Some of these rounds didn't go through my M14, so they will be segregated still again. Here is a tip - if you want to make it easy on yourself to sort brass from your gun, you can make subtle mods to your firing pin so it leaves a unique looking imprint on the primers. My M1A firing pin has a dimple that leaves a distinctive mark that makes sorting MUCH easier. I was surprised by the amount of brass I had. That is about two seasons worth of practicing and matches.

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These are my quick change tool heads and dies for 45ACP, 38 Super, 9mm, 38/357, 30.06, and 223. Pistol reloading is A LOT easier and faster than rifle reloading. When I was shooting IPSC and IDPA, reloading kept us from going broke while allowing we to shoot 500+ rounds every week in practice. 1000 rounds per week would have been better, but you can't have everything. Using these tool heads is the only way to go to prevent having to spend 90 minutes resetting your dies every time you change calibers. I can change from 223 to 9mm or 38 super in about 15 minutes. Time is money!

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The best reference material will not only get you good, accurate reloads, it will also prevent bonehead accidents at the bench and on the range. Read them from cover to cover and heed their warnings. You'll learn a lot of history about cartridge and firearm development in the process. I primarily use Sierra, Hornady and Lyman manuals. Of course, IMR/Hogdon is a mainstay to many reloading benches as well.

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This electronic powder trickler and scale are a MUST for building accurate rifle loads. Match rounds depend on consistent powder charges in the .1-.2 grain range. I haven't found anyway to match or exceed the super narrow velocity deviations from Federal, Hornady, or Black Hills factory loads without using this tool to drop each charge. It cut my groups from .75" to under .5" last year. That is huge when you start stretching the ranges from 100 yards back to 600 yards. Not really necessary for pistol loads, but it would be helpful for bulls-eye pistol nonetheless. You can probably tell my bench was 100% Dillon Blue when I was concerned only about volume. Now, a lot of RCBS green is creeping in as I evolve to more precision.

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High quality components and a good variety of quality factory ammo will save your life when you are developing new loads. Its a huge help to start with a factory load that shoots well in your gun, duplicate its velocity and then start tweaking the speed, burn rate and seating depth to pull your groups in. You get what you pay for in projectiles.

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Good case gages will help you do quick spot checks to make sure the machine settings are not wondering. Measure twice, load once, or something like that.

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Keep it organized and label everything. These housekeeping steps are the hardest for me, but experience has told me that reloads and components will tend to hang around way beyond your ability to remember the details. If you don't want to spend time pulling bullets because you can't remember how old the powder in a batch is, label it all and right down the dates. Trust me on this. Experience can be expensive.

Well, that should cover a lot for anyone who is thinking about reloading. Remember, there is over 10 years of experience and built up inventory in those pictures. Start small. Reloading isn't for everybody, but I find the process peacefully and rewarding.


Last edited by tdowdle on Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:00 pm 
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Wal...I've been stuffin cases sense I was 15....have a pretty good stock of components. Only time I have used factory is when I was in unable to scarf brass....(have card #2 in brass rats annon)....to me it has been a way to relax and load!Now, it is becoming a necessity due to pricing! Looked a a new Midway catalog last night...My God...
if I had to replace all this stuff....I'd have to get a loan! You are right, it's not for everyone...you have to be patient!
Got enough stuff to last till I see the White Buffalo...LOL
For newbies just getting into loading......look for stuff in older folks garage sales.....observe the garage for signs of hunting/shooting/camping....lotta times, the widder has stuff left over from the late hubby that they have no idea or thought of getting rid of! You have to establish friendly report and ASK! I pick up ammo/components all the time.
Let them set the price....you will be surprised how reasonable it is! I picked up a bunch of old Winchesters this last summer this way.(full set of M12 Skeet guns and a 42 skeet......$750 for all 4)One gal had me dig 6 cans of 45 Ball out of the basement and 3 wood cases of 3006..LC64 Match....bullets,primers..powders..all in sealed ammo cans...
wouldn't take a cent.."just use it..that's what he would have wanted"....
Sorry for being long winded.....if I can assist you or any one else....feel free to email or pm...glad to help anyone
get started!
Dan

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:53 pm 
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Dan,

It is hard to communicate to people just how relaxing and fun reloading is. You can get started with a lot less than I've shown above. Since the Dillon has such a reliable auto powder drop, I used an old balance beam scale for several years. For those of you who don't know, you usually only measure the powder charge when you are setting the machine up. Once it is dialed in, any good powder drop will throw most powders to within .2 or .4 grains every time. For pistol cartridges I always use the Dillon powder system. However, the long grains of stick powder so often used in precision rifle powders don't always work as well in the Dillon system. Other companies' have powder drop systems that work better. Since I decided to load rifle rounds for the ultimate accuracy, I decided to go with the RCBS Chargemaster combo and I pour the powder into each case by hand. I'm using a very slow and deliberate method for the powder while loading on a press designed for high speed. There are so many ways to approach and solve problems in your reloading that I doubt any two people do it the same. That is part of the fun. You develop your own methods and you really take ownership of each round you make. It makes it just that much more rewarding when it slices through the 10X ring.

I have to keep a good amount of factory ammo around so I can test fire trade in guns or guns I am repairing for people. I rarely shoot the whole box so I end up with a cabinet full of half full factory ammo. Its kind of another collection in itself.

One of the best tools I found for reloading is a set of LEE powder scoops. These scoops range from something like 4 grains to 100 grains. You just scoop up the powder, scrape the excess off the top with a credit or business card and dump the charge into the case. The set of 25 - 40 different measures cost about $20. I tried a couple of different powders and used my electronic scale to check for accuracy. Depending on the powder, most throws were within a 1 grain of the amount marked on the scoop. It wasn't exact, but it was VERY repeatable. And, when it comes to reloading, the most important factor is consistency in the components to get the best accuracy. It was an amazing find that I had never seen before. I don't really need them, but for $20, I couldn't pass them up. I highly recommend them to anyone who is getting into reloading and wants to walk before they run. I'll post a picture of them in a later post.

I wish I had been exposed to reloading when I was 15. I started my education on how ammunition was built by pulling rifle bullets with pliers. I didn't get a lesson on how a press worked until I was 25. My 6 year old daughter stands on a bucket and runs the press while I watch. Sometimes, her feet will come off the bucket as she puts her entire weight on the press handle. I have to push it the last few inches if the brass is sticky or the primer is crimped in. She loves to show me she knows all of the steps. I wonder how much more knowledge she will have than her old man because she started so young. It won't be long before she can out shoot me. She already does some pretty nice shooting with her Ruger Bearcat. You don't want to be a Speghetti O's can around our house.

Its all good stuff and like Dan said, it is becoming a financial necessity. If you aren't at least collecting your brass for the future possibility of getting into reloading, you are leaving a lot of money just lying in the grass. Pick it up, list it in the items for sale section and one of us re loaders will probably buy it off of you.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:06 am 
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At 15, a city cop taught me how to cast and load for pistol.......we went and shot a bunch....man, the world and attitudes have changed!!Had a lot of other adults took the kid under wing and taught him more about loading and shooting...went on to bulls eye pistol, combat shooting,rifle,skeet......one guy actually snuck me into a seminar by Bill Jordan.....in 64, army amu was not a sniper school.....come to think of it, a lot of stuff I did is now a 'special school' LOL
Bud, like you, I just like shooting...relaxation....requires concentration...getting off topic...
Another thing a prospective loader/shooter can do is get a loader to look over shoulder...I shy away from the term 'expert'.....we are all still learnin......to watch and guide them
in the first loads..positive reinforcement! I differ in the opinions on the Lee bucket method.......get them into
a medium priced loading kit...it will last a lifetime and they are going to upgrade anyway!
I agree with your ideas! Again, if any one on this site or the GN site wants assistance, I would be honored to help!
If a guy looks around, they can get started for less than $200...
Dan

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:18 am 
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"You don't want to be a Speghetti O's can around our house."

LOL!!

i remember reloading with my father when i was a wee little lad.now i do my own (in his garage :) i dont have the room :( ) i have much of the same equipment he has/had that i learned on. got it REAL cheap from a guy who was retiring and moving south and wanted to lighten the load for his trip.

i just finished doing a few improvments to my bench. ill have to post a pic.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:20 am 
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as far as measuring..

i have a rcbs powder measure i use for my pistol loads, and a few rifle powders, but the coarse powders, i dont trust it with.

ill use it to throw charges just short, drop them on the scale, and trickle them to the final weight.

not nearly as quick as your method, but, like you said, more for the relaxation than anything.

as for the lee dippers.. i have alot of lee dies. i like the price of them, but not the lock ring. ill either replace it with one with a screw, if handy, or drill and tap the ring for a set screw. but to get back on topic, the lee dies usually come with a powder scoop, so i have a small collection of them. i dont trust them either for final charges, but they are great for when working up a load, where you put together 5-10 carts of a few diff loadings to try diffrent components against one another. setting up the measure to throw 5 charges is a pita, and then set it all over again 4-5 more times!?!?! using those dippers to get a quick close dump and then trickle the final charge is a lot less stressful way of relaxing !!!! :)


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:02 am 
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For those of you who don't know what the Lee Powder Measure System or Powder scoops are, here is a quick pick.
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Its a little out of focus, but you get the idea. The neat thing about this set is it comes with a sliding reference for 95 different powders. You just select the powder by positioning it in the window, and the corresponding weight in grains lines up beside the different scoop labels. 15 scoops, gives you 15 powder charges for that particular powder. They have Winchester, IMR, Hogdon and most other popular powders listed. It isn't a system for high volume reloading and certainly not for making reloads near the top of the maximum pressure loads. It is simply a low cost method of getting into reloading. A hunter who prefers to load his own or someone who only reloads a few rounds of obsolete ammo for an old gun might not ever need anything more sophisticated. It is quick, low tech, but works for many. And like it was said above, adding a manual powder trickler and a scale to get the last grain or two of the charge nailed makes for another upgrade choice. If you are loading a 55 grain charge, you only want to trickle the last grain or two, not the entire charge.

These are great tools to pass on to a new reloader who is trying to get started. You really can get started reloading for under $200. I paid $350 for my 550B and saved enough money on ammo in less than 3 months to pay for it. Get into it, you won't be sorry.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:26 pm 
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Have been reloading for about 10 years, fine it very enjoyable and relaxing.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:27 pm 
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here's my "updated" bench. nothing fancy (sorry for the crappy pics).

Image

under the cover to the left is the shotgun shell reloader under the cover to the right (and under the hat) is the single stage rock chucker.

the flat rate boxes and 2 big ammo cans you can just see on the right is my brass collection. my 20 ton press is just showing and just beyond that, but out of the photo, is the classic retired bedspread that now finds new life as a motorcycle cover which, if youve seen ANY of the rifle pics ive ever posted, youll recognize as the floor covering/backdrop.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:31 pm 
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here are my manuals. the "bookend" (with the knife in it) was my powder flow stand before i got the new back board put on the bench.

on the left you can see the shelf i made up with assorted junk on it, including my belgium blue kit from brownells. with a little "experiment" with "inside out" lathe turnig xmas ornimant on it :)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:35 pm 
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and my primers and dies, and some tools uesd to work on guns above.

you can also see a salvaged sewing machine that was used to make the press covers out of old pillow cases.


nothing fancy, like i said. but it fit the "garage" motif :)

the desk housed the bullets, reloading trays, boxes for reloaded rnds, shotgun wads, tumbler, powder, and other small reloading tools (scale, trimmer, funnels, ect)


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 Post subject: Re: Doing What I Do - Reloading post
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:42 am 
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Nice I like reloading and am pretty new to it myself, but it is a way to enjoy two parts to the sport. This I had never thought of before. We all love to shoot this is understood, but what about the free time stuck indoors when the weather is badd or the women are not letting us out to play with our toys. Then you can go to your shop, and start to develop loads to try on the next range session. I love it. I use a single stage lee breech lock nothing fancy but gets it done. I have an old school OHAUS 1010 or as they are known now as RCBS 1010 for my scale. I have even used lee powder dippers too.

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 Post subject: Re: Doing What I Do - Reloading post
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:25 pm 
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Been reloading for about 10 years, reload during the cold months, then shoot it up
over the warmer months.

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 Post subject: Re: Doing What I Do - Reloading post
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:24 pm 
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Tdowdle - your bench is my dream!! What a beauty! I'm just getting into reloading myself. Happened by accident but Im glad it did. You're absolutely right - I love it!! I mentioned on another post about my latest find which is keeping my costs low and my shooting high - cheaper shot. I've switched to steel, kinda made sense what with lead going through the roof. Me and the guys have found www.steel-shot.com cheap if anyone's interested? We email them our quantity and they usually do you a deal. We've been pretty happy with it so far. Hope this can help someone :D


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 Post subject: Re: Doing What I Do - Reloading post
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:28 pm 
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p.s. updated bench - hubba hubba!


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